1. sjbr101

    sjbr101 Aug 21, 2015

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    Imagine the scene, a busy boutique adorned with watches of all calibre, the sales executive approaches a group of 20 somethings who are drooling at the display of Carrera Calibre 16. "May I offer some assistance?" the executive asks tentatively, "yes mate" the reply comes sharply, the executive braces for the inevitable........"which one of these is, like, gonna hold it's money best ? cos I is looking for an investment" (sic)
    The phrase "if I had a penny" springs to mind, where has this something for nothing investment mindset come from? Is the marketing exercise that is Rolex to blame? The only reason why I point the finger in their direction, is that the aforementioned conversation is normally rounded off with "cos me mate Dave got a Sub, and he's made money on it."
    Have these people never heard of an ISA, or have they not thought about the property market? There are many more shrewd investments than the horology market. It almost makes me want to say "of course Bill Gates has thousands of Rolex Daytona (only the steel with black dial like his mate Dave told him to buy) that's how he keeps his billions stored, the annual return on his Rolex investment far outweighs his shares in Microsoft."
    Yes I am fully aware that given the right market if you buy low and sell high it is possible to make a profit, however going to a high street jewelers and buying a Submariner, wearing it for 6 months then selling it for more than you pay for it does simply not happen. Yes, the RRP may have increased by the mandatory 2-5% that happens annually, but you have not bought gold bars or diamonds, you have bought a timepiece which you have worn, and now is a used/second hand item, it does not have the same value as a new unworn piece.

    In conclusion, if you are looking to purchase a watch as an investment, make it an investment for the future, invest in a well made automatic, treat it with respect, service it when it needs it, and you might find that the investment is that you will never need buy another watch again, (unless you are addicted).
     
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  2. Calibre11

    Calibre11 Editor of Calibre11.com Staff Member Aug 21, 2015

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    Yes, it's a common mistake. Same mistake as people wondering why their watch loses so much value the day they walk it out of the store- and don't think that it's just TAG Heuer..I have had a few JLCs that have shed value far quicker than any TAG Heuer.

    I would never recommend buying any watch as an investment- buy it because you love it, because you need it..whatever, but don't buy it to make money. The best case scenario is likely to be that in say 10 years time, the watch will be worth what you paid for it (assuming you forget about inflation) if you really look after it and keep the boxes. That feels like a great result to me- 10 years of use and enjoyment for only the cost of inflation.

    So, stick your money into a proper investment to make money- and then spend that profit on a watch that you'll enjoy for decades
     
  3. albertoct

    albertoct Aug 21, 2015

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    I remember when in Italy everybody went crazy for Swatch watches, there were collectors catalogues, prices for some models became ridiculous, people were sleeping outside the shops waiting for the new collections... And now who will want these funny pieces of plastic?
    If you go to a jewelry shop for an "investment", buy diamonds or gold instead of a watch.
     
  4. albertoct

    albertoct Aug 21, 2015

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    But thanks to these funny pieces of plastic and to the fact that they made them become "collectible", now the Swatch Group is the one who produces 90% of swiss movements... the investment, of course, was for the Swatch Group and not for the collectors :)
     
  5. Pell031

    Pell031 Aug 21, 2015

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    indeed! they certainly capitalized on that fad perfectly.

    As to the investment theme, I view my watch purchases as an investment in my enjoyment only :)
     
  6. calibre11user

    calibre11user Aug 21, 2015

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    Ariel Adams (of ablogtowatch.com) wrote an article on Forbes back in 2012 about investing in watches. He basically says not to do it unless the investment is in Rolex or Patek Philippe.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/arieladams/2012/07/02/invest-in-wrist-watches-for-looks-not-value/

    Let me address the two main “exceptions to the rule,” Rolex and Patek Philippe. For whatever reason these two powerful brands have been able to claim at least solid “value retention” for their products. This means that if you buy a new Rolex or Patek Philippe watch today, chances are you won’t lose much or any money if you sell it a few years from now.

    At the end of the article he gives suggestions on what to invest in if you really want to do so.

    First, go with watches from brands that a lot of people know. Wide brand awareness tends to really increase resale demand. Next, get a watch with controlled distribution and consistent pricing. If the price of a watch you are interested is double in a store what it is on the internet, then it likely suffers from poor distribution and has well than consistent pricing. The more consistent a price is overall, the more consistent and high the resale value will be. Last, go with popular models that have been around for a long time.
     
  7. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Aug 21, 2015

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    It scares me in particular when people buy new Rolexes like Stainless Daytonas as an "investment". A 2447 Carrera is a different story or a Siffert Autavia but buying new watches as an investment to sit in a box is a total waste, buy what you love and wear it!
     
  8. sjbr101

    sjbr101 Aug 21, 2015

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    If this was 2012 I could not agree more. Sadly the introduction of anti corruption laws in China that have caused a major drop in the market, that added to the introduction of the 0% intrest free no deposit down offered by most high street chains has slowly filled the pre owned market with Rolex and the like. Patek still offers a fairly safe buy, but unless you have £15000 + to invest (pun intended) you are not even close to buying one. The 2015 market is rather more filled with "investments" Chrono 24 curently lists 47, 2015 Submariners that are all in the UK most of which are unworn, sadly most of these will have been bought on 0% finance then the owner sells up to make 'quick' cash. If I currently had £15000 I would be using it for a deposit on a cheap buy-to-let property not a watch.
     
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  9. Ironliberty

    Ironliberty Aug 25, 2015

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    This is disheartening for me as I am preparing to buy my first TAG which will be my second luxury watch. I have come to the conclusion that a time piece (even though TAG supposedly doesnt perform that well) is a sound investment over the course of time assuming you are buying it to wear it and enjoy it. This thread makes me think otherwise now. Perhaps the market is becoming too flooded? I have decided to buy the new 300m Aquaracer Calibre 16 instead of an older 500m with the thoughts that the newer TAGs inspired by Biver with a more bold design will begin to perform better in the future than the TAGs from the era of everyone and their grandmother twice removed having a plain vanilla TAG or a plastic bezel quartz F1. I also have assumed a chronograph will hold value better than a 3 hand because of TAGs heritage and innovation. Either way, am I wrong in thinking that holding on to my Tudor and TAG and possibly venturing into other brands down the road are not sound long term investments?
     
  10. imagwai

    imagwai Aug 25, 2015

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    It's difficult to predict what the watches of today will be worth in the future. If it were that simple then everyone would be doing it. But then, if they did, the market would obviously change.

    A nice vintage Tudor should hold it's value pretty well. Rolex tends to hold value well too, but even then, if we're talking about a new piece, then it's going to depreciate in the short to medium term. It may eventually reclaim some value as prices inevitably rise, but we're talking years down the road, and you may well have been better off putting your money in the stock market.

    The only sound advice is to buy it because you like it and want to wear it. Otherwise, like any other investment, remember that prices can go down as well as up.

    As for Tag, the vintage Heuers of the 60s and 70s are obviously sought after, but modern ones - well look at the price of an old F1 or Aquaracer today compared to what it would have cost new. I don't see why the Biver-inspired watches would do any better.
     
  11. Calibre11

    Calibre11 Editor of Calibre11.com Staff Member Aug 25, 2015

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    Don't be disheartened. The (edited) quote above is absolutely true.
     
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  12. sjbr101

    sjbr101 Aug 25, 2015

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    Agreed, A watch should be enjoyed and worn not stuck in a box.
     
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  13. dsio

    dsio Ash @ ΩF Staff Member Aug 25, 2015

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    Absolutely agree, compared to cars, bikes or boats they're the absolute best "enjoyment" investment you can make, running and maintenance costs are lower, easier to flip when you want to upgrade and if you buy a quality mechanical piece it will still be alive 50 years from now.

    The Calibre 5 and Calibre 16 models in particular are incredible value, will all still be easily and cheaply serviceable in half a century and are built like a tank. Its very hard to go wrong with either.
     
  14. calibre 007

    calibre 007 Aug 25, 2015

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    No one can say no to ceramic bezels! :)