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  1. Calibre11

    Calibre11 Editor of Calibre11.com Staff Member Oct 15, 2017

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    mouldgt likes this.
  2. imagwai

    imagwai Dec 10, 2017

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    mouldgt and Calibre11 like this.
  3. Aquagraph

    Aquagraph Oct 30, 2018

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  4. Calibre11

    Calibre11 Editor of Calibre11.com Staff Member Oct 30, 2018

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    Wow, seems crazy.,but I don’t know enough about these Speedys...
     
  5. Aquagraph

    Aquagraph Oct 31, 2018

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    Clearly there must be something special about it or it wouldn't have had that estimate, but what? Tropical dial? Whatever it is you'd think the auction house would have mentioned it in the listing wouldn't you?
     
  6. imagwai

    imagwai Oct 31, 2018

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    I'm no expert but the sword hands mark it out as something special.
     
  7. imagwai

    imagwai Oct 31, 2018

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  8. Aquagraph

    Aquagraph Oct 31, 2018

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    Thanks for that Imagwai, I wish they would have told us what's so special - I can't really be bothered to sign up to a forum I'll never go to again just to find out. I'm sure QP will write about it eventually, but given that they've just covered Bazelworld.... it could be a long wait!
     
  9. Mr_Orange

    Mr_Orange Oct 31, 2018

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    For Omega Forums, just use your Calibre 11 log in and password.
     
  10. Aquagraph

    Aquagraph Oct 31, 2018

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    Ah I wondered if that might work, but in the meantime some research has been done and apparently it was the first Speedmaster with a black bezel and the dial has changed from black to brown...

    Here's a Hodinkee report on a similar one from a year ago
    https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/omega-speedmaster-reference-2998-110700-auction
     
  11. abrod520

    abrod520 Oct 31, 2018

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    Tropical dials bring a premium, especially when they're so even as this one. However, notice the bezel is different from most Speedmaster bezels - it's marked "Tachymetre Base 1000" - these bezels alone are worth around $10,000 right now. They're only correct for a narrow range of Speedmasters, but those are among the earliest and most valuable, so a Base 1000 bezel is extremely sought after by a certain segment of watch collectors.

    Oh, and this watch can be brought back to running condition very easily ;) It's the external parts (such as the aforementioned bezel) that are the most difficult bits to get right on one of these
     
  12. Aquagraph

    Aquagraph Oct 31, 2018

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    It beggars belief really that a bezel can be worth $10,000... but I get it, you know - 'worth' is determined by supply and demand - it's just hard to believe that there are enough people desperate enough to part with that sort of money to drive the price up so much. But then you only have to look at Rolex prices to see that there's a degree of insanity running through the minds of watch collectors... thank God the watches I like are still available at sensible prices!
     
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  13. THJunkie

    THJunkie Oct 31, 2018

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    Some of the Speedmasters in either vintage rarity or more recent limited editions fetch way way more than reason dictates. I think there’s quite a bubble to be honest. I saw a LE ‘moonwatch’ in a ‘ vintage’ / collectors watch boutique in Amsterdam a few weeks ago for around £12k. Watch when new a few years ago was probably £5k (LE). The regular watch is around £3.5k.

    Only real difference (appart from a very fancy presentation box) was a graphic of Snoopy on one of the sub dials!

    So I guess a vintage 1st of kind bezel could be worth huge amounts too.

    I do aomwtimes wonder if I’m brarmey paying similar money for TH and Omega watches that will no doobt be worth <1/2 what I pay for them after a few years rather than having fewer pieces that are more sought after and likely to hold value or increase. (No meed to answer, my wife already told me i’m crazy!) :D

    But if I paid £12k for a rare Speedmaster or £25k for a Daytona, I think i’d be too scared to wear it daily. So i rather have more ‘modest’ pieces that I won’t cry too loudly if something unforeseen happens.

    Each their own I guess. Still, interesting to observe these auctions and see what others value.
     
    Edited Oct 31, 2018
  14. abrod520

    abrod520 Oct 31, 2018

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    Well, when added to an otherwise complete Speedmaster (references it belongs to are 2915-3, and 2998-1 thru -3) those watches are worth somewhere north of $50k even without tropical dials. Without the bezel, the watch might struggle to bring $20k (since the bezels are basically unobtainium). Bezels were basically considered consumables since they're on the front lines for dings and scratches, and many were replaced over the years, so the number of watches is higher than the number of Base 1000 bezels out there. So, your $10k purchase of a loose Base 1000 bezel translates into a $30k+ increase in value for your watch
     
  15. THJunkie

    THJunkie Oct 31, 2018

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    TH luckily or unluckily depending on perspective - are not particulrly prized by those with deep pockets it seem - with the exception of a few examples in vintage or very limited edition.

    I had to laugh at a TH store recently. The sales person was trying to convince me how ‘sought after’ the Cal 36 Carrera was with collectors. The point I made about being sold at a heavy doscount and that there was more than one in the outlet seemed to go over their head. Still - a nice watch with an interesting gimmick and a good movement - so who cares right? Collectability does not diminish enjoyment of the watch itself in my eyes.
     
    Edited Oct 31, 2018
  16. abrod520

    abrod520 Nov 1, 2018

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    TAGs no, because they've always been fashion watches. But Heuers have been quite sought-after in recent years... Any '60s screw-back Autavia is going to be a minimum 5-figure watch, even 2446Cs are approaching that level; 2447 Carreras had a short spike to mid 5-figures but have slowed down lately. Any Chronomatic is going to be somewhere in the 20k range (for a Carrera, if you can find one) to 40+ for an Autavia or Monaco.
     
  17. THJunkie

    THJunkie Nov 1, 2018

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    Indeed vintages and especially old ‘real’ Heuers are saught after. Inwas not trying to say that TH and H never appreciate and that nobody collects them or oays a high premium for good examples. Simplybthat relative to some other beands that the keenessbod fhe bidding is not so sharp. I guess my point was that even the LE newer TH watches barely hold their RRP. Even a nonsense Speedy Tuesday LE will go for £2 or £3k above days after release (might not be sustaineable for all LEs), compared to some current LE Tags and even limited re issue Heiera who h can e had at a sizable discount even whilst still on TH website for sale today.

    Example - JH 85 Autavia. £4,850 new. Can be had brand new from AD for well under £4k.

    speedy Ultraman. Sold out rep (I think near £5.5k), going for closer to £7k on resale market right now. Whether that will be sustainable of course remains to be seen.

    Not saying any are better or worse or TH bashing at all. Simply saying that in the grand scheme things newer Tags/Heuers are rarely in demand as much as (roughly) comparable Omages (just as an example). And that was my point - that ‘luckily’ for TH/H collectors and fans it makes aqcuiring desirable pieces relatively easier.

    And yes as you rightly point out there are vintage examples reaching high prices. But again not reaching anywhere near the highes of (some) other collectable brands. Example of relative ease of attainability would I imagine be (only speculating based on my limited research and knowledge) a Snoopy Speedmaster vs a Skipper Carerra. The former requiring much deeper pockets - given both are comparable ‘modern’ LE of classic watches.

    Maybe I’m talking out my ***. Happy to be corrected. But that’s my perception. I’ll admit to only having familiarised myself with the subject in recent months.

    Hoping to bag my first (already) sold out LE of Santa is kind. Just waiting on delivery :D. Will probably be the only watch i’ve bought which is going to be anywhere near hold any noticable value :whipped:.
     
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  18. abrod520

    abrod520 Nov 2, 2018

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    True but like I said, TAG has long since turned their backs on true watch enthusiasts. Now, not enough people care about Jack Heuer's 85th birthday or the Autavia in general to prop up prices of those. And the people who fall for the "limited edition" soccer team / city boutique / whatever watches that TAG pumps out find that they have to offer a serious discount to sell afterwards, since most of the stock remains unsold and nobody wants them. The watches that appreciate are the ones that are desired by collectors; nothing that TAG makes nowadays even approximates a desirable piece. They caught lightning in a bottle with the Skipper, and there's more resale value in the Siffert than others, but otherwise each new version of the Heuer-01 watches just falls flat with collectors.
     
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  19. THJunkie

    THJunkie Nov 2, 2018

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    Hopefully things like the new Calibers and the TdV are signs that things are changing in the right direction. I’m honestly no expert as you can probably guess, but i think that some of the vintage re issues have hit the spot. Maybe not in of residuals due to the volumes. I think over 2000 for an LE is nonsense and going to kill resales and collectability - which lets face it is for most part bragging rights driven by desirability and scarcity relative to supply and demand. Also the limited ‘special’ elements (same bloody strap on most of them!!!) also don’t help. Adding a different colour bezel or adding another logo (except maybe Gulf) does not do it for me. They’re not alone with piss poor LE gimmickry in some cases to be fair. I’d love to see some truly LE classic pieces with some extra ‘pizzaz’. I’ve not yet ventured into the vintage market. Maybe it is time I took a peek. Though my watch budget is well and truly blown this year. So will have to save for quite a while before another piece arrives.

    I really love the Monaco 24 or Cal 36(?) - the chunky one with a bit of industrial design. Also hanker after a Monza. And will no doubt be a sucker for another Carrera or two in time. The TsV or a similar Tourbi 01/02 Carrera does appeal too - some ofnthe skeletonized versions look stunning I think. But I want to see the finish improve a tad and some better executed PM touches to warrant spending that kind of money on anything other than a Rolex (which i don’t yet own at all - silly me - could have jumped the Q by now to have a SS Sub or Daytona quite easily I think!!!)

    One big area to give TH some kudos - they are out there on the smartwatch front. And as a mass producer they’ll need to be to appeal to the next gen and be around to fund making more mechanicals for the dwindling number of ‘traditionalists’ whether collectors, enthusiasts or not. So whilst I have no desire for a smartwatch, got to respdct what they’ve acheived there and realise that it will have taken a lotnof focus away from new innovations in the traditional space.
     
    Edited Nov 2, 2018
  20. imagwai

    imagwai Nov 29, 2018

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